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pdraper
Advanced Member

New Zealand
160 Posts

Pre-sales questions only
(More Details...)

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  07:59:52  
Ok so as per the title not sure if this is bug or design but...

Many products are exempt from free shipping. Mainly big or heavy items. If however I place an item that weighs 0.1kg and costs .10c in with the item that is 40kg and $1000 it gets free shipping. BUG or DESIGN?

If design anyone else doing this and have ideas how to ensure this doesnt happen? I envisage a lot of manual re-entry otherwise.

Paul

Andy
ECT Moderator

95440 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  08:17:41  
Hi Paul

It could be the way the system is set to calculate in pro rata fashion when there are items in the cart that free shipping exempt - I think because of the big difference there the calculation is skewed. Does it happen with a heavier item that is not free shipping exempt?

Andy

Please feel free to review / rate our software

pdraper
Advanced Member

New Zealand
160 Posts

Pre-sales questions only
(More Details...)

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  08:27:12  
Hey Andy,

If all items are exempt from free shipping then the shipping is correct.
If 2 items weighing the same one with FSA and one without, FSA applies and no shipping is charged
If 1 item is heaver and has FSA and one item is lighter but no FSA, FSA is applied

Paul

Andy
ECT Moderator

95440 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  08:40:01  
quote:
If 2 items weighing the same one with FSA and one without, FSA applies and no shipping is charged
If I understand correctly then this one isn't correct. Just to be sure. You have two items with the same weight, one is set to Free shipping exempt and the other qualifies for free shipping then you are getting free shipping for both - is that what you're saying? if so, that shouldn't happen. Can you let me know which shipping method you are using and I'll test it out here. Just to be sure, the item which isn't free shipping exempt is charged for shipping when bought alone,correct?

Andy

Please feel free to review / rate our software

pdraper
Advanced Member

New Zealand
160 Posts

Pre-sales questions only
(More Details...)

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  09:07:11  
If I understand correctly then this one isn't correct. Just to be sure. You have two items with the same weight, one is set to Free shipping exempt and the other qualifies for free shipping then you are getting free shipping for both -

Correct

Can you let me know which shipping method you are using

Weight Based generic

Just to be sure, the item which isn't free shipping exempt is charged for shipping when bought alone

Correct

Paul

pdraper
Advanced Member

New Zealand
160 Posts

Pre-sales questions only
(More Details...)

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  09:09:10  
Have also noticed I get this across the top of the page for my 2 products

The following discounts apply to all these products.
Free Shipping

Paul

Andy
ECT Moderator

95440 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  09:29:30  
I had your details so tested on your store.

I I add

A3 / Product x10

A4 / Product with a slash x10

I get a shipping cost of $2.75

That is correct, isn't it?

Andy

Please feel free to review / rate our software

pdraper
Advanced Member

New Zealand
160 Posts

Pre-sales questions only
(More Details...)

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  13:01:54  
wow ok thats an even stranger result than I get. No not correct at all

Paul

Andy
ECT Moderator

95440 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  13:37:20  
I think that is correct as the two items together would result in a shipping cost of exactly double that so one being free shipping exempt would result in that rate.

Andy

Please feel free to review / rate our software

pdraper
Advanced Member

New Zealand
160 Posts

Pre-sales questions only
(More Details...)

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  13:40:14  
Thats halved the shipping though. Is there a way that if shipping is applied that overrules the fsa because that would cause a loss

Paul

Andy
ECT Moderator

95440 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2018 :  23:01:22  
I can't see a way of doing that unless you could tweak your shipping rates / rules. I think in an example like this you wouldn't normally have two items at the same price / weight with one offering free shipping and one without. A more normal scenario would be an item that weighs a lot more to be free shipping exempt as offering free shipping on a heavy item naturally incurs more costs.

Andy

Please feel free to review / rate our software

pdraper
Advanced Member

New Zealand
160 Posts

Pre-sales questions only
(More Details...)

Posted - 08/21/2018 :  12:43:24  
Andy appreciate all the thought your putting in here.

So here is a real world scenario I just created

1 case of paper weight 10kg
1 ream of paper weight 2kg (has a special FSA)

Ok so before anyone jumps in and say no one will order a ream and a box of paper. This is not true. I done it only the other day. Box of everyday copy paper. And a ream of high gloss special paper.

Now everyone knows how heavy paper is so there wouldn't be any fsa on that infact it would likely increase from the standard cost.

When I placed these 2 in the cart again shipping was decrease and below the amount the couriers charge so a loss is being made.

The issue here is fsa is offered on small stationery products over 65$. Cart handles this beautifully. But the minute something like a printer or paper etc is added fsa no longer applies.

Would be good to see in a future release an include = variant if shipping applies overrule any fsa

Paul

dbdave
ECT Moderator

USA
10468 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2018 :  13:36:39  
I located a post by Vince regarding the way this works, so it may offer some insight.
See the posts by Vince there.
https://www.ecommercetemplates.com/support/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=106679

pdraper
Advanced Member

New Zealand
160 Posts

Pre-sales questions only
(More Details...)

Posted - 08/21/2018 :  18:45:26  
Thanks Dave. Looks like this exact issue has been raised over 18 months ago.
Was almost a mirror of my post. hahahaha. Maybe I will just cut and past from the other post when I receive responses :-)

Andy/Vince are we able to table this as a feature requirement as I too am a little confused as to why we would want to reduce shipping. Shipping cost is shipping cost.

Paul

dbdave
ECT Moderator

USA
10468 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2018 :  20:49:31  
The topic of shipping costs and struggles with getting exact costs to the customer, matching what you pay, has come up many times over the years.
With so many factors, it can be a daunting task.
I will share my experience.

We have a huge variety of products. Some small and light, some small and heavy, some large and light, and some large and heavy.
This can make it difficult, particularly when you consider US shipping companies factoring in "dimensional weight" (extra weight when the package is bulky, yet lightweight).

In the early days of my store, we did not want to jump on the free shipping bandwagon. When customers would abandon a cart with a large order, I would hurry up and email them to offer a discount, or tell them I would ship for free.
Finally, as business grew, I decided to do it.
It turns out, it was one of the smartest decisions I ever made when it comes to the sucess of my company.
But along with that came some orders where I pulled my hair out thinking, "well we gave all that profit to the shipping company" .
But I also (with time) learned to look at the big picture of shipping costs versus overall sales versus shipping revenue collected on orders that did not qualify for free shipping.

It turns out, for us, shipping costs (consistently) run about 10% - 12% of gross revenue.
Literally, I could raise my prices 12% and never charge another shipping fee and make the same money. Although I would lose sleep every time a customer ordered a $3.00 item and it cost us $4.00 to ship it. But my point is, that I took a step back and realize that the overall numbers over a period of time is what's most important.

Yes, we may lose a few dollars on shipping costs, but then a customer comes along that we made a few extra dollars on their shipping costs.
I should also point out that we show retail shipping costs on our website. So the discounts we get from shipping carriers, helps offset the cost of our free shipping orders.

I also developed some custom front end javascript that shows delivery dates for each shipping service. The customer sees that free shipping will take a day or two longer than a paid service. So this has encouraged more customers to pay for their shipping to get it faster.

I was curious how much you lose in the scenario
1 case of paper weight 10kg
1 ream of paper weight 2kg (has a special FSA)
and I can imagine that it is expensive to ship a case of paper.

Keep in mind that I sell a case of marble that weighs 35lbs (16-17kg) at about $55.00 I have free shipping on orders over $99
Customers come along and order two cases and nothing else. Then want it shipped across country.
The shipping will cost us about $50.00 and that's just about all our profit going to the shipping company.
Luckily not too many customers hit us with that scenario.
But I don't worry too much, because the next customer may need air shipping and we make extra revenue there, so it evens out.

I'm not going to pretend to understand your business or situation, but again, this is just some insight into my learning curve with shipping costs and how the website handles that.
I have learned that customer hate paying shipping, so it is imperative to offer a free shipping promo. At the same time, you can, and should, have upgrade options for those who need or want your premium services. Customers will appreciate the free shipping option, but will sometimes upgrade if given the change.
Think of airlines offering first class. Some customers want that first class service.

I just checked my lifetime stats ( great numbers and the ect alumni party is in planning (first beer is on Andy))
The shipping revenue we have collected is almost 10% of that. So if we pay the shipping companies about 13% of revenue, then our free shipping promo only really costs us 3%.
It's not hard to roll that 3% into our pricing.

In closing, I suggest that store owners look at the big picture over a healthy time range (6 months minimum) to get a real image of what FSA actually costs them and don't dwell on individual orders.
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